Marriage According to Grover
By Milehimama on Oct 20, 2009 in Faith, featured
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My kids have never really watched Sesame Street, I’m not sure why. I remember watching it growing up and liking it, but I suppose that when we had cable we were more likely to tune into Noggin than PBS at whatever timeslot it came on.
Seen this?
Notice it’s “two people”, not a man and a woman, not a mommy and a daddy. And do you notice what’s left OUT of the definition of a marriage?
Hugging, and kissing, and helping each other are good things, generally, but that is not the totality or purpose of marriage. That is not the fullness of God’s plan.
“The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life, is by its nature ordered toward the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring…
…God who created man out of love also calls him to love the fundamental and innate vocation of every human being. For man is created in the image and likeness of God who is himself love.90 Since God created him man and woman, their mutual love becomes an image of the absolute and unfailing love with which God loves man. It is good, very good, in the Creator’s eyes. And this love which God blesses is intended to be fruitful and to be realized in the common work of watching over creation: “And God blessed them, and God said to them: ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it”
H/T Crunchy Con
mary alice (1)
Trista (1)
No picture shows up for me – can you link me to it?
This is all I can see:
Kaira | Oct 20, 2009 | Reply
I think I fixed it.
Milehimama | Oct 20, 2009 | Reply
I dressed up like Grover for Halloween when I was a kid. I loved him.
Well, I guess Grover and this little guy forgot about love, commitment, family and a whole slew of other really important aspects of marriage.
And, before anyone goes getting all ticked off at me for saying “family” – two people do make a family.
Kaira | Oct 20, 2009 | Reply
But, two people living together and hugging do NOT make a marriage.
Milehimama | Oct 20, 2009 | Reply
Kermit was my favorite. I still have a Kermit stuffed animal that I’ve had ever since I can remember.
Milehimama | Oct 20, 2009 | Reply
Oh, for sure – two hugging people living together are not married! crazy. otherwise I was a married lesbian many years ago living w/ my girlfriends I was friends with and hugged and helped. nonsense.
Kaira | Oct 20, 2009 | Reply
Sesame Street hasn’t been on in my house for ages due to this type of message. I’ve seen pro-daycare, pro-any type of family is the same. I’m tired of them trying to indoctrinate my children. We’ve moved to dvd only.
BTW-The video shows up with internet explorer but not mozilla.
kat | Oct 21, 2009 | Reply
I have WP/Youtube issues. I have Mozilla, and I can see it. It seems to be hit or miss.
If you can’t see the video, go to this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQJvSzkVfRg&feature=player_embedded
Milehimama | Oct 21, 2009 | Reply
Just to clarify and in defense of Grover (my favorite Muppet), the scrutiny and responses to this over 22 year old clip have forgotten a few things and assumed much. Here’s some context, which I think helps.
1) Kids do leave things out when quizzed on a topic, and this was not a pre-scripted segment. Rather, there was a goal, to ask an average kid (not a professional child actor) about marriage and see what he responded. Frank Oz, the puppeteer behind Grover, tries to expand and include things that were omitted, including helping each other. And note all of this is “things people do *when* they’re married.” And married couples are friends, help, live together, etc. The omission of the word “love” may seem odd at first, definitely, but this was done live. But also, this was not shown in isolation but in a context, which I’ll get to in a moment, which fills in the blanks. This was supplemental to a larger theme for that season (1987) and was one of several bits which had Grover asking a kid what they think love is or marriage is. The use of “people” is being overscrutinized, since no doubt to the kid Jesse, he took it for grnted that the people were a Mommy and Daddy/husband and wife but didn’t feel the need to specify genders (a common trait in kids, in my experience, up to a certain age). Could Grover have corrected and clarified? Sure, but that’s putting a lot on one monster (or one ad-libbing puppeteer’s) shoulders when he also has to make sure to keep the kid’s attention. Procreation? Well, not all marriages do result in offspring (whether by choice, due to biological issues, financial etc.) and that wasn’t something “Sesame” would tackle just yet (they’d get to it in a couple of seasons). Frankly, kids’ TV today is probably much franker about child birth than it was 22 years ago but even then they try not bring up sex but deal with it in a “where babie’s come out of mommy’s tummy” manner, all of which would have been tricky for Oz/Grover to try to force in.
2) This is the bigger thing which bloggers have missed in discussing this clip, which is also understandable given it’s isolated context on YouTube. This was a segment, as I said, as part of a larger theme and goal, in addition to letters, numbers. etc. No, nothing sinister. The big plot of 1987? Maria and Luis fall in love and get married! So a series of episodes depict Maria and Luis (longtime friends and coworkers, for more than a decade at that time) suddenly realizing their feelings are stronger than that and working through it to realize it’s love and then deciding to get married. So they explained love to Big Bird and others, announced and planned the wedding, relatives came over, issues of whether people still love each other even if they argue, all kinds of elements were brought up. It culminated in a rooftop wedding before a minister (I think denomination was left vague but he wore a collar and was Hispanic; probably any adults would assume Catholic, but a Christian minister of some sort anyway) with the full vows, songs, even longtime chastely romantic friends Bob and Linda briefly, in their thoughts musicalized aloud, wondering if they should consider marriage. So Jesse and Grover missed some things, but they filled in the gaps. All except childbirth, which required further research and study, but that happened two seasons later, as Maria gave birth to a little girl (who is still on the show, by the way, though she’s gone through a few actresses).
So, that was a lot to write. As a Christian, as a product of the traditional marriage, and as a scholar of Muppets and the pedagogical modes and approaches, I think there’s been kneejerk reactions and “indoctrination” assumptions about this. “Sesame Street” certainly can be liable to criticism, but an agenda has been assumed where there was none (or rather, where the agenda was in fact simply to supplement Maria and Luis’s marriage) and while I’d certainly urge parents to scrutinize or watch programming with their children, then and now, the curriculum and goals and messages of Sesame Street really are harmless trifles at worst and a useful foundation for school, especially if they end up in the public school system, at best. TV should never be a mindless babysitter (even my mom, over 20 years ago, sat through Sesame with me; she vetoed or switched off if, say, a skit involving witches came on), but context and understanding is always good. And the clips being put online *now* are targetting nostalgic adults, not kids for the most part, with Sesame Workshop in fact urging parents not to let their kids watch unsupervised but to discuss and answer questions.
And it never says that two people living together and kissing and hugging “makes” a marriage, but Grover asks what people (or a man and woman to fill in the gender blanks) do when they’re married, and certainly those are all hallmarks of most happy marriages. Is that all? No, but the ommissions aren’t a sign of anything and Grover isn’t setting himself up as a marriage counselor or expert (and again, I really think this is more than compensated, or was originally, by the surrounding look at love, courtship, marriage, and all they entail).
Thus ends an overly elaborate defense of Grover.
Andrew Leal | Oct 24, 2009 | Reply
22 years old? WOW! I knew it probably wasn’t from this season (judging by the clothes), but I didn’t know it was that old. How do you date these clips? (and how do they get a clip from pre-DVR onto YouTube? My Net skills are woefully inadequate.)
But, I stand by my post. Marriage is much, much more than a couple of people living together, hugging, and helping each other out, whether or not there was an ulterior motive to the clip or not.
And I totally agree with you – if that clip were to come on while we were watching it, it would be a great jumping off place for a discussion. In fact, when I was watching it before embedding it, I did have a conversation with Mr S, my 7 year old.
But I must disagree that Grover is the best Muppet, because everyone knows Kermit rawks!
Milehimama | Oct 24, 2009 | Reply
Oh, you’re right, I agree there’s far more to marriage, just that some people have read an agenda when there isn’t *and* placed a little too much responsibility on the shoulders of an old clip, a little kid, and a furry adorable puppet monster.
I thought your post was much fairer and less polemic than the conservative post that seemed to have sparked a lot of this and definitely tried to claim a “Sesame Street is brainwashing our kids in favor of gay marriage! How dare that heathen Grover do such a thing!” sort of attitude.
I’m a long-time Muppet fan and an admin at Muppet Wiki, so we’ve managed to track down and document original episodes in full when possible, pieced together others from partial reruns on Noggin and from CTW’s archival documents, tracked down the earliest known appearance (which is not always the first appearance), and so on (the Grover clip also aired during the season when Maria gave birth), but all curricular evidence. There’s a good book I think you’d find interesting, “G is for Growing,” which discusses the behind the scenes process, not so much the production as the pre-production and scripting, choosing which topics to approach, how best to handle sensitive areas, testing with kids and parents and educators; there have been some failures, which have generally either been pulled immediately or never aired, like an attempt to tackle divorce by having Mr. Snuffleupagus’s parents (!) split up, but even with Gordon trying to explain, it was too emotional and upsetting for the group of test kids so they never aired it; there was some dissent even at the time about how to deal with it. I think that’s one of those topics someone like the late Fred Rogers was actually better equipped to tackle, in his low-key and straight forward manner and with his supreme gifts for speaking to kids (an adopted sibling of mine had some emotional issues and really related to Mr. Rogers and his “You are special just the way you are” and “There’s no one else like you” messages; I’ve honestly felt it really was a God-inspired ministry for Rogers). He handled marriage issues/definitions and such a little better too, I think, perhaps because (outside of the Neighborhood of Make Believe, which was always kept separate) there was more of an intimate reality to his appoach. I think the divorce project was well-intended but too complex and harsh a reality to address with Muppet elephant-ish critters.
And of course, Kermit is still the supreme Muppet, though sadly Disney owns him now (the dividing and chopping of the Muppet world after Jim Henson’s death really is both confusing and a bit depressing). But you can’t top Kermit *and* Grover together!
http://www.youtube.com/user/SesameStreet#p/search/2/vQj2_Zmq1-o
Oh, and on a technical side, I don’t think it comes from DVR. Rather Sesame Workshop has digitized a ton of their videos and skits, organized by themes and character and topic and also searchable (but the search engine can be wonky) all the way back to the first season 40 years ago, even including some Mr. Hooper bits! That’s all at sesamestreet.org, but they’ve been putting some clips up at YouTube and Hulu as a kind of sampler.
Andrew Leal | Oct 25, 2009 | Reply
Mr. Leal, I am truely impressed with your Muppet knowledge. Milehighmama, I agree marriage is much much more than just hugging. But marriage is a big concept to talk about with a Muppet and a little boy too. Something is bound to get left out in the clip
Amy | Nov 1, 2009 | Reply
Sesame Street’s “Let’s Do it”
basically it is a sex-ed on how birds and reptiles lay eggs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9bkBX8y778
Renee | Nov 3, 2009 | Reply
Calm down. we’re talking about a completley arbitrary ring and liscence here. it’s not like the kid tore off his shirt to reveal a rainbow tanktop and started a duet of “it’s raining men” with grover.
By the way, the second you bring religion or the bible into any argument you automatically lose credibility.
You can find insight in an Archie comic if you’re willing to look hard enough. Submiting yourself to a social construct that was obsolete to anyone with a brain centuries ago i no way to have a debate.
Jordan | Nov 9, 2009 | Reply
I think you misplaced a qualifier. When I bring the Bible or religion into it, I lose credibility with YOU. But, since this is a post about my worldview, not an application for a position as a journalist, it’s fine. Especially since the point of the post kinda IS religion and marriage as a sacrament, and what the author of the sacraments has to say about it, NOT an arbitrary ring and license.
Milehimama | Nov 9, 2009 | Reply